New Expat from Australia

[andrzej]

Hi

I am planning to move to Ningbo with my wife and four kids (1M, 3M, 6F, 9F) in late July. This forums are very good source of information but it is still a bit confusing. I have touched base with the real estate company listed in this forum to find/offer some apartment/house that is family friendly. I plan to visit Ningbo from the 31st of March for 1 week to see if it is a place suitable for my family to live.

I was wandering if there are any other expats with kids that I can meet to have a bit of a chat about life in Ningbo, even if you have no kids it would still be nice to catch up. I plan to send my kids to Ningbo international school as I understand it is a good school.

Of course I have many questions that I would like to ask but I think it would make this thread too long.

Thank you

[Michael-H]

Hi Andrzej!

Yes best is to come over and see from yourself.
You could join an expat dinner (see HERE) or events so that you can chat with other guys.
But where to live is also according to where you'll be working.
Any idea where your company will be located ?

BTW, there was a thread about kids in Ningbo that could be worth reading :
http://www.helloningbo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201

Welcome to Ningbo !

[jaja88050387]

Dear andrzej,
welcome to ningbo !!
living in ningbo could be a very cherishable and exciting experience for both of you and your nice family.
usually expats with their families prefer to stay or rent in Dong hu hua yuan (East Lake Garden),its a community with nice and friendly neighborhood, elegant gardening and many facilities for kids too, besides, the transportation is good too, 10driving distance to downtown and with Metro beside it.
i have many foreign friends living there, so maybe i can introduce some to you, always good to establish new friends and renew old ones.
as for the int'l school for your kids, there are many in ningbo, such as The British Int'l Kindergarten and Ningbo Int'l School.
don'twant to make this thread lengthy either, hope you enjoy staying here, haha, drop me a line if any questions occurred,culturally, personally, or daily, whatsoever!!

[andrzej]

Michael-H, thanks for your reply. If you are still having dinners once a week when I arrive I will join for sure.

I think I will be working in Zhuxi (need to confirm as cant remember for sure) which is about 1.5 Hrs by car from Ningbo.

I have also read the thread and it has good information especially about not assuming anything, very good advice.

Jaja, thank you for your reply as well. I will do some research about dong hu hua yuan and see what sort of appartments are available in that area. My family will have a car so we dont have to be walking distance to facilities such as shops etc..

Do you think my kids could make friends with local Ningbo kids?

Sorry another question;

Is good speed internet conection available?
What power do you have (110 V or 240 v)?
Do you have cable TV?
Is there any theme park with rides close by?
Are the local people of Ningbo friendly to expats?

Thank you

[Patrick]

Hi Andrzej !

Welcome to Ningbo !

Here are some answers :
Is good speed internet connection available?
Yes as you can get ADSL but sometimes can be a bit slow during rush hours (18:00-21:00)
What power do you have (110 V or 240 v)?
Power is 220-240v
Do you have cable TV?
No but there are Sat channels...
Is there any theme park with rides close by?
There is a big park called Harborland in Beilun district (30mns from Ningbo city center) with some thrill rides
Are the local people of Ningbo friendly to expats?
Yes of course but if later on you know a bit of Chinese it will be even easier. We have a monthly section in HelloNingbo magazine called "How to Improve Communication" and soon we will start some basics. It started in January and I can drop you the first 2 issues when you come around...

Hope this helps

[been there done that]

Hello Andrzej and welcome to China!
My husband, I and our two children (9m and 11f) have been here since 2004. I see from the ages of your kids that my first suggestion is probably impossible for you to arrange. Nonetheless, it is imperative that your wife accompany you on your fact finding mission if at all possible. There are so many issues that we moms have to face on our own and you don't want to be held responsible for not giving her the right information to make an informed decision! We will be happy to organize a group of Moms for you to talk to. I even know one with 4 kids close to your kids ages. You should talk to parents (not administrators) from all five of the local international schools as well as those parents who have chosen to submerse their children in the local Chinese schools.

One difficulty here is that families come in and leave on a regular basis. Your kids will make friends only to loose them. It is not easy and you need to prepare them. This goes for us Moms too.

You really need to verify exactly what city you will commute to.
If it is Zhuji, your travel time will be more like 2 to 2.5 hours one way from Ningbo. You should consider living in Hangzhou then, not Ningbo. Your commute will be shorter and it is a very good city for foreigners.
If your spelling is way off and the city is Cixi (the pronounciation is almost the same to our ears) , then it depends on what side of the city. If north, you'll want Hangzhou, if south, then Ningbo is fine.

If you would like to meet some of us, we can arrange it through this web site. Good luck!

[andrzej]

Thanks for your info Been There Done That.

You are correct; it is impossible for my wife to join me even though I would love for her to do so. I will have to face the wrath of my wife alone, so am planning to do my homework well!

We have some experience in re-location as we lived in Japan for 2 years from 2003-2005. I realise its not the same as Ningbo though.

I have confirmed that I will be working at Xizhou, Xiangshan County. How long do you think it would take me to drive from Ningbo to Xizhou?

I would also love to talk to you and some other mums about your experience and discuss the list that my wife will generate for question time (she is good at lists!).

I am already getting a wealth of information from ppl like yourself.

Thank you

[been there done that]

Ahh that is better. Xizhou (she-joe is a close pronunciation) is indeed about an hour and a half drive maximum. The 45 minute (average) drive from Ningbo to Ninghai is on a tollroad where speed is fairly predictable and constant. The road is in good condition most of the time and truck traffic is not too bad. From Ninghai you cut off to a provincial highway that has low speed limits through the small towns and varies from wide to narrow. It's a scenic adventure ride of close calls with pedestrians, bikes and carts and hidden speed limit signs with cameras ready to catch you if you are late for work or concentrating on finding the next readable road sign. There was a lot of construction on it last summer so it may be improved now, estimate 20 to 25 minutes. Songlanshan Beach is about 30 minutes further down the road and we go there a lot during warm weather so I am familiar with the drive. About the beach, don't expect too much and you will be pleasantly surprised. The scenery is nice and there are some good photo ops.

Regarding housing, I think JaJa is right, you need to look at East Lake Garden for an apartment first. Compare everything else to it. (by the way, we don't live there, but I still recommend it based on the age of your kids and the direction you have to travel for work) And bring baby gates and child safety equipment with you as it is very difficult to find them here and you will only find multilevel apartments here. Bring your own car seats for the kids too.
Bring on the list from the wife and we'll address it as best we can. Since you've been an expat before, you are ahead of the game. But we all agree, China is like nowhere else! You'll just have to see for yourself. Bring your sense of humor and a backup, patience and more patience, flexibilty beyond western logic, and get the whole family to practice saying 'What an adventure this is!' It applies to every situation here even a 5 minute drive to a store.
Pick a day that is good for you and we'll organize a chat session (consider this an open invite to any of you local expats reading this ) at Starbuck's or someplace convenient for you and that has wireless. That way we can hook up on messenger or skype(which you will have all set up on your laptop that you are bringing, right??) and your wife can ask a few questions too. Maybe that will keep you out of hot water a bit, See you soon!

[andrzej]

Thank you for your response....the mind boggles with all the information and questions we now have! I look forward to the adventure! We are somewhat advantaged by our Japan experience in that we know to expect the unexpected....but we know that we can never really be prepared for China!

You mentioned 5 international schools...we know of NBIS and British Kindergarten, but no others...can you advise what the others are so we can perhaps look them up on the web? I am keen to live near whatever school we end up at and thus far we have had some positive correspondence with NBIS.

In regards to apartments we had an initial contact with HelloNingbo Real Estate but other than the intial response to our query it has gone quiet. Any other suggestions for Foreign friendly agencies that could set up some viewings during my visit. Really appreciate your time .

[Patrick]

Hello Andrzej,

As you will see in China, time goes very quickly and concerning apartments rental it goes at the same speed. We have a listing but 50% of the flats we selected are not there because already rented by us or others before we got even the time to list them...Market is so quick in Ningbo...but this is the exciting side of this city that keeps moving !

Still if I may give you an advice as you come by the end of March but plan to move in July, you should better first discover the place, see the schools, location of the main expat residences, distance with your work, etc.. rather than to focus on visiting specific flats that won't be available in July. The priority in my opinion would be to go back home knowing exactly which area will be the most convenient according to schools, work and of course environment you like...

Then it will be much easier when you're back in July to choose an apartment focusing on size, equipment, etc. If you want to have an idea of how apartments look like you can browse here : Ningbo apartments rental

Our experience shows that when coming over quite often expats decide to stay about a week in a service apartment like Good Sun Business apartment for example, that offers short rental and gives them time to visit flats and make their final choice with their family...

Hope this helps !

PS : Concerning schools, we have a selection of the most famous places listed here : Ningbo Schools

[been there done that]

The rental market moves quickly here, so the advice Patrick gave you is right on. It does no good to look at things that won't be available for you when you get here. There is no such thing as reserving here. If you see it and like it, you must get a contract and start paying rent as soon as possible or someone else will.
As I understand the way apartments are listed here, there is a central list (published in Chinese) and then the realtors go through it and choose the ones they want to market. Everyone has the same listings unless they know a friend who wants them to help rent out one. There are not many local realtors who are known for serving the foreigners market because they find it difficult to work with us. There are things they don't see the need for, things like ovens, roomy refrigerators, safe gas stoves, childproofing (especially balconies and stairs) double paned windows, insulation, maintenance......don't get me started! you will hear 'no problem' so often, only to find they had no idea what you wanted. It's not really their fault, this is still a developing country. There are 30 years of catching up to do, especially in the area of 'customer service'.
The expat websites are the best place to start. At least someone who understands 'western' expectations has tried to screen out the apartments and has interviewed the owners and presented our expectations to make sure that they are willing to negotiate. Take a look at the prices, size etc. of what's out there now and try to get an idea of what to expect, but it is doubtful that what you see will be available in July unless there is something wrong with it. When you arrive here, I guarantee that anyone you have contacted will have several for you to look at.
Again, Patrick's advice is good. You should consider going into a serviced apartment for the short term so you can take your time looking. You must decide on a school and a location first.

The schools. Patrick linked you to a list of schools on the HelloNingbo website. The first four are the intl. grade schools here, although the British Itl is only a kindergarten at this point. I am fairly certain that there is one more that is not listed. I will check on that. You need to see all your options. To the best of my knowledge and in my own opinion, there are no 'bad' schools here. Every school teacher that I know here is highly qualified and dedicated to education. However, none of the schools here have been operating long enough to have the resources that we expect. Be prepared to supplement...bring board games, especially the educational ones; books, they are very expensive and selection is limited here; electronic learning toys; flash cards and lead free powdered tempera paint are a few things I can think of just now.

[ericsob]

Andrzej,

We will actually be moving to Ningbo this summer as well with our 3 children - 2M, 4M, and 6F - I just learned this new code. We are leaving tomorrow for an official look-see visit arranged through our relocation company. She has arranged for us to visit 4 schools and 13 houeses in 2 1/2 day which should gives a good lay of the land. If you want, I'll get the person's contact info as it would give you a one person to help coordinate the search/scheduling, but assume it comes at a cost.

I have started pulling together a document with all the schools, restaurants, sample housing, etc. . that is very simple to print but it is too large to post if your interested.

[ezydorek]

Andrzej,
We have been living in Ningbo for 6 months now. We have a small daughter who is 13 months now but was 6 when we got here. If we could survive, anyone can.... Do not worry about schools, friends, apartment... it is all available here and I am sure it will exceed your expectations as it did ours!!! Coming to see China and Ningbo with your own eyes is a great idea. We did the same thing....
Having a Polish name, do you speak Polish? We are Polish/American. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to contact me at ezielonka@yahoo.com
Na razie,
Edyta

[ericsob]

I guess I am struggling with some of the comments having just competed a look-see. As one with 3 kids and the need for a larger place, I have found it difficult to find a large - i.e. 300 sq. m. quality house/villa that is in a nice/convenient area, let alone ready to move in. We did not see any that were ready to move-in as all needed at least 2-3 months of renovations/construction before being ready to move in.

Am I missing some garden spots?

[andrzej]

Ezydorek, sounds like you are having a good time in Ningbo. Having a young daughter can be quite stressful in a foreign country especially when they fall ill, I am little suprised at your positive outlook. I am starting to feel excited about the prospect of living there. I am Polish (Gdansk) and have moved to Australia in the eighties.

Erisob

Wow 300 sq.m place is massive, please let me know if you can find something that large. I was thinking about getting 150 sq.m and there do appear to be appartments available of this size.

[Patrick]

Yes, 300 sqm starts and especially houses are difficult to find.
I met last year a factory owner who had bought 3 flats one on over the other and once they were connected with a wonderful renovation, the place was wonderful with a huge sun deck on top. Although the budget was around 22000 yuan, the place was rent in a week
It's true that the market in Ningbo moves a lot and if you're interested you must be ready to get in, as with less offers, these houses are rent quite quickly.
Kathleen from HelloNingbo Real Estate had several times some nice villas but she didn't even have time to put them in our database...

[andrzej]

Is there any way to get an address in Chinese for the places listed below so I can print them out and give to the taxi driver to avoid communication issues. I want to visit the places that have been listed in this and other forums, thank you in advance for your help.

1) Park with rides - Harborland in Beilun.
2) Ice ring at Youngor Stadium.
3) Perfecta Fitness Center-Bowling.
4) New Century Hotel - Heated Swimming Pool.

Andrzej

[Kathleen Z]

Hello Andrzej !

1) Park with rides - Harborland in Beilun 北仑凤凰山乐园.

2) Ice ring at Youngor Stadium.
Be careful it's a seasonal activity : 雅戈尔体育馆

3) Perfecta Fitness Center-Bowling 北仑帕菲克健身中心

4) New Century Hotel - Heated Swimming Pool.
Please see here : new century hotel 开元大酒店 - 百丈东路812号

[singlexu]

Dear Andrzej,

Welcome to Ningbo, I can offer some informations for you. Maybe it's useful.my MSN is xuxin722@hotmail.com. I hope I can help you best!

[andrzej]

Thanks Xuxin, I will get in touch. It is only a week before my departure. Very exciting.

Andrzej

[felix]

welcome to Ningbo.
i am a lawyer practice in Ningbo.just write to me if you have any legal questions. e-mail: lawyer-wfx@hotmail.com

[andrzej]

Thanks Felix, I have actually just returned back to Oz. I am now working on a contract with my employer, would you have any recommendation as to what should the contract have in relation to legal issues (in the event of a car accident etc..). Thanks I will also post my view later of what I thought of Ningbo but at the moment I have to go.

[ezydorek]

Andrzej,
I am also an attorney (U.S), and currently I work with one of the Chinese law firms here in Ningbo.
Recently, I had a chance to review many employment contracts of my expat clients/friends. Few things that, I think, may be worth considering: Health Insurance: going to a doctor with a simple cold is easy and cheap but if, God forbid, something bigger were to happen and you needed to go to Shanghai, then the prices are really "international".
Make sure your insurance policy covers that and also that hospitals in Shanghai accept your insurance. Good policies that I saw cover everything 100%, including air transportation, hotel, etc. The benefits and expenses companies reimburse vary from company to company but some good ones that I saw covered school tuition for children, gym (which can be expensive in China.... about $1000 for Weider Terra annual membership), basic home furnishing such as appliances,etc. and a company car with a driver.
As far as legalities, your contract is most likely governed by Australian law (if it is an Australian employers sending you to China) so Chinese law does not matter too much. Make sure you have proper visa, your company pays the taxes (depending on your contract duration) and you should be fine. With the car, especially at the beginning, I would recommend getting a car with a driver. For you to be able to drive in China you need a Chinese driver's license. It is a process that is not complicated but takes some time, not to mention different "style" of driving here .
If you have any other questions, law-related, or other, don't hesitate to contact me: Pozdrawiam. Edyta. (ezydorek@yormicklaw.com).

[andrzej]

Thanks Ezydorek
I have taken on-board your comments. I hope to touch base with you when I arrive.

In general I have found the following about Ningbo

1) Driving
Crazy!!!! I now understand what ppl meant about driving. I have been in Japan, Taiwan and Thailand but driving in Ningbo is out of control. I will have to join the Chaos, scareeeeed. Still it seems to work as I have not seen any accidents. I play many video games so driving in Ningbo is like playing a game......I hope.
2) Pollution
This has to be my major concern. I have not seen the sky during my visit yet everyone I have talked to can not tell me for sure it is pollution. I think it has to be. The pollution is the biggest risk to my family in my opinion.
3) Health
Many opinions here, this is another difficult one. A French doctor once a week or ....... not sure what is an alternative (many have been suggested). It was recommended that all drugs including antibiotics should be taken from the country of origin.
4) Food
Food is easy.... Have seen things that made me sick but I have to accept the different culture... Enough said.
5) Party
All is well, party is on but at a western price.

[Michael-H]

Driving might be impressive by the number of cars but in fact not complex if you follow lines and watch for bikers.
Maybe taxis always rushing are the one giving the impression of "chaos" but in fact the average person on the street drives rather slowly and accidents in town are usually rather insignificant...

[SusanB]

I'm an Aussie and my impressions were very similar to yours on my arrival. I have been here for 2 years and become accustomed in some ways to the unpredictable and many times totally illogical turn of events in Ningbo.
However, it is exciting, constantly changing and providing opportunities for new experiences and adventures for young and the not so young. I think it is a fantastic opportunity for children to experience another culture.
In answer to your queries, I have not had any experience of know of anyone with bad experiences through eating locally prepared food. Medical issues are a concern for children, however there is a New Zealand doctor who is good and runs a clean and hygienic clinic at Beilun. I would bring a travelers medical kit with antibiotics etc that you know your children can take. Traffic is chaotic, no doubt about it, but the accidents seem to be minor in the majority of cases because the speed is not excessive in general. Though taxi drivers can be the exception.
Travel insurance could overcome your worries about having to take sick family home in the event of major health problems.
Pollution, is an issue, but it is cleaner here than in many cities and I have seen stars on several occasions in the 1st month or two. I have heard that Ningbo is cleaning up its act in this regard.